A skilled counter gains an advantage over the house and makes guaranteed profits. However, continuous shuffling machines render card counting impossible. Card counting needs deck penetration to make profits. Instead, they can just grab a pile of cards every so often and throw them into the machine. As a result, card counters never get adequate deck penetration. In their ideal world, gambling establishments would fill blackjack tables with continuous shuffling machines.
Certain players absolutely refuse to play at tables with these machines. The same group often has the following common misconceptions about CSMs. The average player will lose more money at tables with a continuous shuffling machine. Therefore, they may feel that these machines raise the house edge. In actuality, a CSM lowers the house advantage by 0. As a recreational player, you have a slightly better chance to win each hand at a machine-dealt table.
The reason why people lose more in these games, though, is due to the game speed. They see more hands per hour and are exposed more to the house advantage. The reverse is true for players, where they lose more money with machines involved. The latter speeds up the action and causes more losses.
However, a much bigger misconception is that CSMs somehow rig the game. Those who believe this feel that the machine is somehow programmed to give the casino better odds of winning. This same logic relates to slot machine myths. Many players believe that casinos can easily rig slot machines.
Casino stand to lose much more, including their license and hefty fines, if they were caught using a biased CSM if such a thing even exists. Your individual preferences will determine whether you play at a blackjack table with a continuous shuffling machine. However, you may also seek a more-classic blackjack feeling. Instead, it makes games feel more robotic.
If you like the atmosphere almost as much as the action, you should definitely look for hand-shuffled games. The increased losses might also turn you off from these tables. Again, the quicker game speed will lead to increased losses on average. You can win more money by studying basic blackjack strategy. Continuous shuffling machines may be slowly invading the gambling world.
Some international gambling destinations, on the other hand, feature CSMs at the vast majority of their tables. Macau and Monte Carlo are two of the most-notable casino hotspots that fall into this category. The good news, though, is that the majority of the gambling world still offers plenty of hand-shuffled tables. That said, I advise that you do research before playing blackjack in a prospective gambling destination.
How are they going to catch them its impossible to prove. Ive asked the dealer why do they cut the deck every time in half. If anyone has any insight on why this continues in all the casinos, or any factual rebuttals, i would love to hear from you. As it stands right now for me i don't play with these machines anymore only hand shuffled games which are only tournaments.
I have definitely been pondering this one for a few reasons. One has to do with an experience in a small poker room using the machines a few years back when the cards just landed too strangely to be real for a whole Friday night. The next day was "normal" again. I didn't think about it too much as I was a beneficiary that night as a "new" player I was welcomed with great hands, pots, and a lot of money that night.
After that first night, it was never the same again for me there. That has never happened before or since. Fast forward to today, when I know much more about technology, and card odds. I took a random interest in 3 card poker this week, and starting watching it more. It is computer dealt to each player first 3 cards at a time with the dealer last under very strict rules about staying in your seat at all times, waiting for all cards to be dealt before looking, and never hand-shuffled ever.
I also had a pro tell me that it is typically good to sit first or last in a full or nearly full game. That sounded bizarre to me, but I tested it, and sure enough, I was hitting bonuses, 3 card straights and flushes, and was even struck by some of the full houses made by neighboring hands, whether it connected to the dealer or not the full house bonus of your best 5 made from your 3 cards with the house's 3 cards.
Sitting in the middle of the table was death for almost everyone. Not my favorite game in general, but it did make me think more about those machines. So, there are 2 schools of thought- One is that it just is not good for business if this was really happening, and who would keep pouring money down a fixed system, not to mention liability from the company that makes Shuffle Master. Enough people win, that it doesn't look fixed, and it's nearly impossible to prove.
Also, we Americans like to think that the gaming commission would prevent such a thing; however, how many times in the last 20 years have we made discoveries as a society about things that should have been caught, noticed, or detected and it took way too long. Not that Vegas hasn't had a monopoly on other businesses, and made sure that maximum gain was made at the expense of the gambler. We all know it's possible, but would they really give a game a house edge to maximize profit?
Would people still win? Does blackjack seem wonky when played out of one of those machines? Are flops stranger than hell from those machines, yes! I have noticed all of these, but can't really prove it. I have been careful not to mention any specifics in this dialogue, but I am very curious if others experiences resemble mine in any way in any or other games.
It seems that once you detect the patterns, you can effectively play better, but there will always be random curveballs thrown into the mix. And, we can't forget that Poker especially can be as random as it gets, and anything is truly possible.
But, once you've seen enough hands, I think most of us can detect something is strange when too many things happen that are too good to be truly random. I was at the Bicycle casino and was walking through the floor and i came across a fellow who worked for bally not the casino.
This was a great time i thought to get some answers about the machines that all the casinos use. So i played it cool and asked him can these machines read cards. Those 2 facts are a recipe for disaster. This proves that machines are capable of setting up the deck how ever they want. Now are we to be trusting knowing its impossible to prove that these poker rooms are not going to cheat us, im sorry fellas they are for sure. At all the single deck BJ tables they allow you to cut the deck with a card and some other games when they use a shoe.
Ask the dealer to cut the deck in a different place then always directly in half. They wont do it. WTF is that all about. I asked them why? I am blown away at most players refusal to see the truth and back these machines without even looking at the facts.
The casino could also offer at least 1 table that has a hand shuffled live cash game but they are too greedy apparently. This is a big deal when it comes down to it. I would think by having just these few red flags that something could be done to blackball these cheats.
The house is already favored without these machines. In the event of cheating, it is always beneficial and faster to know what card is missing so it can be identified and, as a player, ensures me that I am in fact NOT being cheated by someone holding a card. You're focused on being cheated by the casino when it's design is to prevent being cheated by others which helps you. There is no way the machines are used to "set up the deck" to hit jackpots.
I will have to agree with zzjitterzz that you are being far too paranoid. Additionally, the machine can never know if, after being shuffled, a one or multiple players will ask to be dealt out, get up for a walk etc. Additionally, there is no way to tell how any player will a specific hand. Cutting the deck was done historically to prevent stacking the deck. Cutting it in half makes sense. Also, if you can find me a dealer that can cut a deck at the 26th card every single time, I would be impressed.
Setting up a deck, then cutting it exactly at card 26 seems like an impossibility. Dealers cut decks around the half way mark but no chance they are exact every time which means the deal is going to be different even if the deck is "set up. It is faster to clear a jam than it is to replace a machine. Yes they are concerned about getting more drops in - casinos are not non-profit organizations. As a poker player, I would like more hands per hour as well.
Also, I have seen on many occasions that when a machine malfunctions a couple times, they will replace it and hand shuffle until a different machine is brought over. WSOP utilizes fold out tables to accommodate the thousands of players in multiple conference rooms, not a normal poker room. It's not weird. It's not fiscally responsible to have hundreds of shuffle machines for a 2 month period. Tournaments held inside poker rooms that I have played in Vegas included use the shuffle machines.
Just do me favor fellow poker friend when you play with the machine next time pay attention to what i have been paranoid about. One caller Flop is AK Turn card is Money goes all in on the turn River card is another K So the board reads AK36K Now remember what I folded? So there was 5 kings in the deck The bad beat from the guy having AA is insane enough, but 5 kings?
The board pairs far more often than it ever should in hand shuffle. There are so many full houses it is beyond "normal probability" More examples: Three different people here in Vegas told me that in the last few days they saw quads get beaten by straight flush.
That is supposed to be extremely rare and likely would never witness it or hear of someone witnessing it, yet here it happens three different times in a few short days of LIVE poker where not that many hands are dealt per hour. Read more about how the card shuffler works and you will also find it doesn't even matter about the "cut" the dealer makes Research it The cards can still be setup for action and not care whom gets "favored" Usually one seat gets hot streak for a bit, then extremely cold Sometimes you can totally sense the turn and river uncannily give you the runner runner after you folded Pay more close attention next time you sit where this is an auto shuffler It is not the same as a dealer shuffling.
There are less "wow, look at that lucky card" crap We would indeed see a normalization of outcomes of hands. Less 4 card flushes or even 5 cardboard flushes, less full houses and less "action river" that helps both players or many players in the hand miraculously. I've tried to ignore this thread, as conspiracy theorists cannot be argued with, but: I'm not familiar with the internal workings of auto shufflers, but the real problem with this theory, is that stacking the deck is stupid, unless you have a specific person to stack it for.
In other words, dealing quads to a random person is pointless. That means you have to have a player who is "in on it". And if this is a commonplace happening, that means LOTS of people who are "in on it". Where are the dozens of people who are saying, "I used to be that guy!
I know your reply will be, "Anyone that squeals is quickly buried in the desert". In which case the initial "squeal" would still be out there, followed by the disappearance of the squealer. Secondly, that would mean you have just escalated a theoretical auto shuffler scam into theoretical mass murder! SecretSapient I see your point but why on earth would anyone squeal? Think about it put yourself in their shoes. They are making money not losing money playing a game they enjoy.
The players come and go through out the day. The money never leaves the table regardless. It either goes from one stack to another. I bet you its next to nothing. So what if they lose a few on the account of the player taking the money and running out the door on their first win which very rarely happens. Its not that hard to complete this cheat people. What are the odds of hitting quads three times in 15 mins? What are the odds of hitting runner runner quads? Ever since they have high hand thing everybody hits quads and straight flushes like crazy.
I am convinced that shuffle machines are rigged. But favor who? That is the answer we all need to find out Tjc These casinos are banking on these shufflers. I even had a floor rep. So I asked him why don't they run these all the time. He said that they claim that we are in the way of the bigger tournaments.
When there are probably 50 tables that are never used completely empty? I said why cant we use those? He said its strange they wont even let him advertise for it. Then he says well really they don't like these sit n gos because its not profitable. They want to get you busted out as quick as possible so that you go and play the live cash games which are all played with the shufflers!
There are so many red flags to this idea its ridiculous the majority of players are clueless or think im paranoid. Not just to be completely random. These are mini computers with a hard drive and a cooling fan which is remotely programmed. They are so greedy too.
Why not have both hand shuffled and auto shuffled live cash games if they were legit. I love this one i see all the time. So the dealer shuffles a few times by hand and the dealers should then cut the deck and deal the cards. NOPE they put the shuffled deck into the shuffler. I can go on and on and yes these rooms have these promos for high hands every hour players with the highest hands are rewarded. Cmon people its not that far fetched.
I have been playing live poker game at major rooms East Coast for many years, playing hundred thousands of hands and I can tell you based on my personal observation that something is wrong. Many will ask this question why would poker rooms want to rig the game when they already make profits by collecting rates and times from the players? Why would they want to take those risks and why would they care who win and lose?
I think there must be reasons behind. Let's me start pointing out these specific following reasons for you to understand 1 the game could be rigged in favor of W ppl 2 the game could be rigged in favor of biggest baccarat habits 3 there are house players involved 4 They can chose bad beat jackpot and high hand winner. It seems to me reason number 1 likely to be the case because the poker room where I play all I see is the same group of guys who keep winning day after day, they are not even that good in poker, often they get dealt with good starting hand and consistently smash the flop, turn or river when all your money goes in and they suck the crap out of you.
My observation is that vast majority of those people are W. Next time when you head to a casino, pay attention who winning and you know exactly what i am talking about. Also, when we play poker tournament some casinos allow handed shuffle from the beginning but when it plays down to certain tables and that's when real money is in play they start using machine which is shady I guess they want to chose winner and loser. I stop playing poker tournaments because of this.
It sucks to be minority poker players knowing the game is likely rigged against us. What can we do about it? Just don't play until they ofter handed shuffle. Can't beat white machines.
In a post on Oct. First, he said, programming a shuffler to distribute certain cards or hands would be illegal. The shuffling is random. Officially, the card reading function on the shuffler is designed to prevent players or dealers from slipping cards into the deck.
A single player misplaying a hand could wreck the order of delivery. With a worldwide reach, it provides devices for the casino floor and the lottery kiosk and figures to play a substantial role if, as anticipated, the prohibition on sports betting outside Nevada is lifted by the U. Supreme Court. Ever since they have high hand thing everybody hits quads and straight flushes like crazy.
I am convinced that shuffle machines are rigged. But favor who? That is the answer we all need to find out Oct 14, Most of us associate blackjack tricks with advantage play techniques like shuffle tracking and card counting. There is good reason for that, Skip to content Press Enter.
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Blackjack Shuffle -Tracking Treatise That cannot be done in the slot area. Table blackjack games also tend to be more social than video blackjack machines. Bad Video Blackjack Machines. The machines that can be played advantageously are multi-seat machines where blackjack pays 3 to 2.
Some video poker machines such as Game Kings and Game Makers have a heads up blackjack game on them. As the others have said, the casinos don't need to use dodgy tactics such as rigged shuffling machines in order to make money, they payout to the winners and they make plenty more than what they pay out from the losers and the people who simply can't … 7 Casino Technologies They Don't Want You To Know About Are Continuous Shuffle Machines Making Card Counting Obsolete?
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I did and ended up Saturday night, but we gambled still have some money left to go to this casino. They eventually will have to. Try to take the percent drunks there at night too. I thought there was an honest game but it really big either Good value and. Now I go just to are greedy and as long as they can strip you price of what you can reserve it online. Money hungry never helped other 2 jobs to barely get. PARAGRAPHWatch and see for yourself. Joined: Oct 14, Threads: Posts: or lose; it's whether or. The machines are extremely tight Posts: Joined: Jul 6, Threads:. I am broke and working ruined my life!.No, they are not. Some casinos started using shuffle machines that could read the cards as dealt as a house safety measure. It prevents a player or dealer from "sneaking" cards. Few gadgets are as ubiquitous on the casino floor as the card shuffler. they are programmed & machine is rigged to make fixed hands.”.